In the tenth episode of our new podcast “Voices In Payments” our host, Diederik Klopper discusses Visa's ambition to become the "Network of Networks" and what the future of payments will look like with Daniel Van Delft, Country Manager the Netherlands, and Jos van de Kerkhof, Director Products & Solutions the Netherlands at Visa.
Visa's mission is to connect the world through the most innovative, reliable, and secure payment network - enabling individuals, businesses, and economies to thrive. Visa's focus on innovation is a catalyst for the rapid growth of connected commerce on any device, and a driving force behind the dream of a cashless future for everyone, everywhere. As the world moves from analog to digital, Visa is applying its brand, products, people, network, and scale to reshape the future of commerce.
Listen to the podcast to find out:
If you’re curious to find out more about how Visa's payment network - enables individuals, businesses, and economies to thrive, please reach out to Daniel Van Delft and Jos van de Kerkhof for a conversation.
About PaymentGenes’s “Voices In Payments” – The Future of Payments podcast:
The “Voices in Payments” Podcast, is an initiative launched by PaymentGenes to positively impact the payments community, by educating and connecting the market with vertical-specific industry expertise.
PaymentGenes Empowers Business growth by providing expertise-driven Recruitment, Contracting, Business Strategy Consult, and Data Strategy Services. These services all resolve and intersect around payments. Learn more about how we can help your business here.
← Rapyd Episode| ← Ekata Episode | ← GoCardless Episode | ← PayByFace Episode| ← TIS Episode | ← G+D Episode | ← AEVI Episode | ← Marqeta Episode | ← Afterpay Episode | ← VISA Episode
Hi everybody. Welcome to the PaymentGenes podcast series. Voices in payments today, we're joined by a visa with Daniel Van Delft as the managing director, the Netherlands and Jos van de Kerkhof called the director product solutions, the Netherlands, A very warm welcome to the show. Thank you very much. So Daniel let's start with you. Yeah, my standard question were always open the podcast with is how did you stumble into payments? Because I cannot imagine that you woke up one day and said I'm going to be a payment expert.
·
00:41
Not really. Actually. I stumbled into payments, close to 20 years ago, when I was still working in the automotive industry and there was a party looking for a manager who could manage co-branded portfolios. I had no clue what co-branded portfolios were at the time, but they were automotive links. Actually that's why, the executive search company, and yen found me. Actually that is the way how I stumbled into payments and actually joined at that time visa card services back in 2001.
·
01:20
Okay. How did you develop because visa card services and then you had a stint at Abby and uncle as well?
·
01:27
Yes, indeed. Actually within, visa card chirps, which we rebranded to international card services when we launched MasterCard and later American express, actually to serve the clients in another. Both, actually, partners like, but, definitely also, more and more to banks actually. I built out the division and, made the step towards the mother organization at time for this bank. I think you all know how fortress bank, came into play with, the friends of Abe in that role. That is actually how I ended up with ABN AMRO and actually, from ABN AMRO slash Fortis, I made the step towards visa in 2009.
·
02:19
All right. 20 years of industry experience stalking here and you'll see, how did you stumble into payments?
·
02:28
Well, I just always been my lifelong dream to be need and payments. I I was working in procurement at the time and I was buying payment systems. That really got me into everything related to payments. Joined ABN AMRO at some point started managing relationships with payment parties, like visa, MasterCard, like equals at the time and a number of others. I really found it interesting and a bit of my character is that I always look for that's better.
·
03:00
That's different. That is this pushing it a bit. The guys within the product team noticed, so they thought, well, if you have all of these ideas, then how about you can work with us and you can help with him on it. That's been really a lot of fun. That's what I've been doing at ABN. Then, a number of years later, I was always somewhat interested, with visa and specifically because of the people that work there, it was a great opportunity for me to join the company about a little over two years ago now. Really, yeah, really loving, essentially working with visa to be really on the forefront of anything that happens in payments, because I think that's the real beauty of famines, right? It's something you do every day that people do every day that really matters. And that has an impact.
·
03:48
Yeah, exactly. As well, it's such a rapidly developing industry that I'm always amazed from day to day, what new initiatives are popping up left and right. Visa is often, working together with those new initiatives. Where does this urge for innovation come from Danielle?
·
04:07
The, I would say the urge of innovation, originates already, back 60 years, I would say because, what we tend to say, although it is out of scope now is that, visa in essence was a FinTech company when it was originated. I actually, to serve its, clients to move money, as you rightfully said. That evolved into, let's say, innovation, by innovation tapped on innovation to actually improve and that journey of money moving from, the sender to the recipient and vice versa. Actually with the, let's say upcoming, and now very much apparent, digital digitization in the world. Visa was well-positioned actually to act to improve his space in terms of innovations and bringing innovations to the market, but also, let's put it this way as being part of a four party model.
·
05:20
We were and had to innovate to stay relevant for our partners in the value chain. It is not only actually originating from us, but also part of the request out of the value chain, for new innovation, for better customer, more seamless customer experience for a more seamless checkout experiences. And so and so on. It is, actually our part of our bread and butter slash nature, to deliver, the right innovations to the market to bring the market further, but in a safe and secure way. I think that's also important to mention is as we are indeed moving money, so we have.
·
06:10
To make sure it's safe,
·
06:13
Trustworthy, and also, backed by a NSA, a very resilient system with actually is proven and where all parties and evaluation control support.
·
06:27
Yeah. You joined the company now a little over two years ago, and that, of course, I think everybody knows visa from the brand on the credit card. What were some of the developments that were going on within visa that took you most by surprise?
·
06:41
Well, I think that the sheer thing that people expect, but it also, it really is true is that you cannot think of a development going on in the Netherlands, outside the Netherlands that involves payments, that visa isn't involved in. If you want to think about what is happening in payments, then, I've come to the right place. I may not been wanting to be in payments when I was seven years old, but, certainly do want to be in payments now. If you are a bit of payments and fuzziness like myself, it is really a great place to because it's really happening, here, but also really prize me or maybe not surprise me. What I really liked is that, just the sheer amount of data that is available. The, you can really get to understand essentially behavior of people. You can see what's happening.
·
07:34
That is really, yeah, all over the world. That's essentially at our fingertips and you can really do so many beautiful things for them that they not really, it's their rights, but to actually then see it and be able to do something with it, is just amazing. We'll, we'll stop about this point, but the amount of materials and research that is available, the insights portal, we have, the development portal, we have all the things around developing people, but also developing your knowledge about this industry really is second to none.
·
08:07
Yeah. Yeah. I can definitely imagine that, of course, a full global footprint and so much data from all over the world, tremendous insights available there. I'm looking at some of the developments recently, the schemes that have started to develop a new debit card system to replace the existing bank cards and following the same rails as the credit cards and visa debit is of course a good example. It is MasterCard debit. Also why are we seeing this development now? Is it necessary? Or is it, what is the reason for that?
·
08:39
It's not really a new development, right? So there is at the moment over 2 billion visa debit cards in the world. So it's something that is happening. It's something that is happening in the Netherlands. Maybe from a Dutch perspective, it is new, but it's good to realize that yeah, over 2 billion, it's not really a new product anymore. It really is here. And it's.
·
09:02
Actively replace the bank card, right? Maestros, et cetera.
·
09:07
In the Netherlands, that's indeed the discussions that are going on to also get essentially all the innovations, in place. It's good to realize that the innovations that we are doing, we're trying to be as efficient. There's anyone to standardize it as much as possible. We have standardized to a very far degree already, the way that from a backend perspective, debit and credit to operate, and we can bring new innovations like a patent. We we requested for paying with your dash cam. That's something we can develop. It's something that we can now develop and then incorporate for visa debit or for visa credit, but on the main brand first. Of course the smaller, the differences are, or the more you are part of a bigger thing than the innovation we'll go fastest for us. Visa debit really is a core product.
·
09:57
It's it's our biggest product, even when you look at the sheer numbers in it. It's something that we developed for first, what we see in the Netherlands is that we now, the banks and the other issuers who are wanting to be innovative, and I think all of them do. I think all of them are very innovative before in order for them to be able to offer the latest things that make sense for them to also move to work to this global standard, because that really is what visa debit is. It's the global standard that they can offer numerous innovations first, essentially, as soon. Yeah, as soon as they've been tested and it can be rolled out, and that is quicker to do with visa debit than it would be with another program.
·
10:40
Yeah, exactly. Of course the uses of credit cards has been already since I think, 1915, 1960s with the diners club that it started. One of the main advantages of using credit card are the value added services. Danielle, how do you see that develop over the coming years? Is that becoming more important or less?
·
11:02
I think if you look at the credit card business versus the kind of the debit card side of business value at a service as such can be linked to either debit or credit, due to this digitization, it is far easier actually to connect, value added services to, either of the products, but looking at the customer, experience slash added value would like to bring, you could still assure them that on the credit card side issuers are likely to add more insurances, and, more travel related support functionality. Whereas with visa debit, you will tend to go more to control features to control the actually derived from your visa debit card. At the same time also to support, actually traveling with that card, both virtually as physically and virtually has become very apparent lately.
·
12:10
Yeah, exactly. Of course I had. The physical card is now being replaced by the virtual cards, perhaps for those who are not that familiar within the payment industry, what is specifically your virtual card and then how does it work?
·
12:24
Actually, if you talk about carts, you talk about numbers, a card number and a card number can be stored on a card on a chip of a card, but it can also be starred in a virtual environment like in your digital wallet as you buy now, no, on your mobile phone. That will only further evolve so that we call that token. It's actually a D arrived number from your card number, which has certain features, which makes us more secure and easier to store in a digital wallet.
·
13:06
Other means, will allow us actually to, support you as a customer in, actually adding tokens to far more, actually, means around you, which you use either daily or subscription-based and could be linked to transit, could be linked to automotive to come back to my, origination, and can actually also link more into, nah, I already told that, subscription based, I think is one of the key leavers, but you can also think in the other side, so that's the issue token side. It could also be that, in the future and we believe that it will happen that large retailers will invite you to store your payment credentials or your token as they're actually digital environment, their check out slash wallet to allow you with an even more seamless checkout experience going forward. You obviously have seen at the pilot, which is, running with all the time.
·
14:20
You also have seen, the news around Amazon before that. I think that is something which will be developed further, which will evolve further and which allow actually us as consumers to pay even more seamlessly and to really enjoy actually the goods and not so much the hustle of making the payments.
·
14:48
Yep. Of course the seamless payment experience that touched upon is now King basically ended after the best user experience. Something that, I think you mentioned Amazon was already a, some time ago where the Sarah Huckabee Sanders, was complaining that when our kid was shouting to Alexa, Batman, that 15 Batman dolls were bought, of course, there's also an issue there with regards to security. If everybody, if the payment experience is super seamless, then is it as well possible for me to make payments without me giving actual consent on that? I think as well, tokenization here can play a key role when different merchants are storing your card details, not having the actual card numbers, but the tokenized card numbers. What developments do you see there? Do you think, indeed, this is the solution to the issues with regards to security?
·
15:40
No, I mean, there's many things, right? And I think it's really upon us working in this industry to make sure that the people who are paying feel comfortable paying that they're paying for the things that they want to pay. We're not, we're not in it to have people spend money that they don't want to spend, right? So it's super important that people stay in control over the money that they have and the money that they want to spend. We have in the arrange of products that help that allow people to set controls on. I don't want my car to be used or my virtual card to be used, for instance, a purchase in a digital channel or don't want it to be used to withdraw money as well.
·
16:21
If there's a number of ways to control it, that's kind of the one side we want to make sure we enable solutions that puts the actual payer in charge as you should be, of paying money. The other side of security is it has to be clear that it's also you, that is wanting to make a purchase. There are solutions that we offer that enable that can draw upon your biometrics and biometrics can be there. Your fingerprints of course are an obvious one. Iris Irish is an obvious one. One that we really believe in is also voice recognition that is being increasingly developed. That's also in your example that you gave about Alexa. That's the one that you have up.
·
17:00
It should not be that when the child shouts eight times Batman, that Batman's are being ordered, right? It should be that when the parents, or at least the one that's been set up with the card, a shell it's eight times Batman, then probably something with it. Like I want to buy actually about mine, that it makes sense to have that beam and happen. So we invest a lot. When I say a lot, I'm talking about billions of dollars to invest into, the security of our network, the security of the solutions and the innovations that enable essentially the right people to make the right purchases so that a transaction happens when it should. Yep.
·
17:37
And continue a bit on tokenization. It's been around already for some time. I think nearly everybody is familiar with the concept, what it is, but there's all new use cases being found almost daily. What are some of the developments that you see there?
·
17:54
A new use cases I think can be found, in the trends domain. I think that's closest to us now. Also in the automotive domain, linked to transit. That actually not that, let's say the means of transport can actually communicate with each other, but they can also actually support you in, paying exactly what you have to pay on a per kilometer basis, for example, and on per use usage basis. We see that developing, we see that happening with large automotive companies being highly heavily investing in this as well and interest actually to include it. Of course, again, this is how do we develop that ecosystem in a way that it is sustainable and that it is future-proof.
·
18:55
As you alluded to certain secure, and that actually consumers believe that it works the way it should work and that I have full control over what they do pay and what I do not want to pay for. That I think is a clear example, in that I would say in the next three to five years, which will rapidly evolve, maybe just to give you a further example, how it could work in practice. We know that we're not there yet that we're close to it is of course the cause which are actually able to drive without driver anonymous drive autonomous driving. That example actually brings a whole use case for meaning that actually the car could actually work for you for me and for others in a kind of a share model, to support our request for mobility.
·
20:05
Car ownership will change going forward and how to actually deploy and support is with a proper payment system behind it. Actually also a reconsideration behind it is something we are very much, willing to invest in and actually to support that model, to evolve going forward and to the benefits of consumers, but also of course, to the broader society, because that also links back to how we look at urban mobility going forward.
·
20:42
Yep. The ownership of cars will drastically change. If indeed cars can drive themselves, then why do I need to own a car if I can just grab any card that is out there and as well, of course, and then perhaps we'll come to a new subject is we're linking to IOT. For instance, if the car itself has a, a card number, then for instance, it can collect the funds of the people that it's transporting, but as well, pay for its surface for, electricity for talking about, EVs. It says as well, there's something that you're working on and machine has a card number.
·
21:24
I actually, we already have it to a certain extent in our collaboration with Uber in the U S whereas actually the card number is not so much in the car yet of the drive, but actually is now linked to the driver and to support the driver, in getting his money fast. Because that is, there was quite a need, so to speak, for the drivers to fuel up the cost, to do the maintenance and so on. As they have limited budgets, they were really in need to have the, let's say the balance feet sooner rather sooner than later. So that's what something we have done.
·
22:09
I think the next step will be indeed, if you move into autonomous driving that there is not a driver anymore, but you still want that car to do the same things in each charging, or I think it's probably more charging than a fueling up, but that is something we look into a very deeply also with the likes of Uber, but also with the large automotive companies.
·
22:36
Yep. Looking at IOT, the example I've always used is our knives in my refrigerator right now can tell me what's inside of it. Quite easily can then be linked to make sure that there's a minimum stock of XYZ. Are these developments as well, that is currently involved with yours.
·
22:57
I think in general, right? So we are seeing, and we are promoting the organization really as the methods to have a secure, as soon as you turn any device into a smart device that can pay. So that can be for the dental. Danielle I think rightfully gave for that it's on this device. For the example you just gave a need about the fridge tokenization gives that capability essentially. There's a couple of things that need to go with it, of course, to make it secure, to make it that you really do want to order. That it's set up in the right way. So we have that.
·
23:28
I mean, you are enabling that the challenge, of course, with the example you give is it's not so much on the visa side, right? So as soon as the fridge decides, I want to order, we can enable that today, but for the fridge to know the milk is out, and I always want two bottles of milk in my fridge. That's I think the real challenge where I think there is probably, I don't know the ins and outs of this, but that's really happening, but from a, a visa payment perspective, we are certainly essentially to every question you can give us here, are we talking to, are we looking into, yes, that's the bread and butter of what we do. We want it to be as simple as possible for a payment that should happen to happen. And and we work with anybody.
·
24:10
It'd be, if a fridge manufacturer, a, a laundry machine would be a big industrial company that has separate needs as well. We work with anybody. It's that once essentially to drive that view, to drive that same purpose, to make it happen for their customer, for their consumer, for their business customers, for essentially anybody we want that to if we want to have that money flow.
·
24:38
Yep. All right. Perhaps to jump to a different subject, credit cards are often used in a closed loop system as well, and obviously more and more open loop systems, Daniel, perhaps for the listeners, what is a closed loop system and why should these systems migrate to become either hybrid or open loop systems?
·
24:57
Yeah, maybe to start off with rectifying one thing, they are often called credit cards, but they are not credit cards. These are, actually close look cards with a specific purpose like you have in the fleet and fuel market, but also in other markets, like for example, again, an OVI chip card. A credit card in essence is always open loop. It lives by the fact that it has a broad acceptance across the globe. That's why you usually take your credit card with you if you are traveling. That said, if you see now what the close loop Mark is looking into, they see that due to that rapid innovation around them, that rapid innovation in terms of use cases, in terms of, also expectations of the customer, let it be a normal consumer or a business customer. They expect more from a card.
·
25:59
They expect more from a means of payments and they expect it to be connected, meaning that a, a closed loop card with a close purpose, let's put it this way. Actually, we use, we stayed I wouldn't say really end of life, but it should be absorbed into a broader, more standardized system and a standardized platform. With visa being part of, the EMV set up the EMV rails, it actually allows us due to the, I would say improved serves and functionality we can offer, to replicate so-called closed loop systems on our network. We can also Gregory open them up. We call it hybrid systems that it actually both serve the closed loop needs.
·
27:01
For example, fueling up, your car and an accident, it could also be opened up to pay your hotel bill as an example, two words almost fully open look at where we actually come back to the, let's say, the full fledge, functionality of a visa card, which actually supports you in every day at payments everywhere you want to go. That is actually in essence, the let's end it also the journey, which is now an evolving, and we'll actually take, as well, a number of years, where you see that based on an action driven by the fact that you want to standardize and to support your customers in the ecosystem best with a future-proof solution, which you do not have to invent totally yourself, the best way forward is, to do this. And I standardized, functionalities slash system.
·
28:11
Yeah. That being said, is there a future for a full closed loop systems, or do you think that they will do now dissolve altogether?
·
28:21
I think that is maybe too. I say too tough to say in a say that we are, we also will not sign up. Cash will actually, really, disappear me phased out to disappear. There will always be use cases, environment, segments, where a closed loop system might better functioning, then a closed loop over an open loop system or a hybrid system, but you can always think, and you should always think is our view to do board it on a standardized enabling system to support your use case, example, the ski lifts in any apps. Why should you still have a closed loop system with a specific card which only works and your ski village, why shouldn't it be simply an app? You add a token to it. The force will open, which allow you to actually take the ski lifts.
·
29:38
Those kinds of things are kind of top of mind and become even more top of mind, as long as you can secure that. It is only used for that specific purpose.
·
29:51
That's a yeah, interesting development. Yet there are so many use cases that you can use it for, that needs, are perhaps not on top of mind for everybody that it's, they're stuck in a moment in need, like the ski lifts. Now it is what it is at the moment. There are so much more dynamic to be gained there.
·
30:10
Yeah. Better. And I'd also efficiency to be gained. In the end, it should also work out for all parties, in a way that it provides, let's say a more seamless experience in terms of onboarding. Overall also less cost and probably Indian as well, adding services, which matter to the parties in that specific version. Yeah.
·
30:40
Yeah. You're looking at the payment landscape as it is now of course, visa plays a critical role in a broad sense there, but at new local payment methods that are popping up left and right. How does visa stay competitive and stays the preferred payment method in such a competitive market?
·
30:59
No, I think it's a really good question. I think it's something that we see as well. I think both these are offers and that's really, our strength is a number of things. First of all, we have really good acceptance, right? So if you want to use your visa card, you can, and you can essentially anywhere you go, right. If you go to Southern China or you go to the U S or anywhere in the roles, you can pay using your visa. That's really something that really important to us, but also that's really a strength of the network that we have built together with all these partners over 60 plus years. It's it's really something that's there.
·
31:39
I think another key characteristics that we offer is that we have the ability for things go wrong, that we can, recharge fraction, other methods we can roll back and we can go through situation as it should be. That's really a key component of the visa network as well. I think overall, right, so we've talked about innovation. I think this whole session is about the future of famous there's little companies. I think so invested and so joined and part of innovations, as visa is, with our global presence with in the 20 plus thousand people around the world, working in this industry with truly embedded in the innovation hotspots. Silicon Valley, but also within Europe, within Asia, like were we're everywhere. We can tap into all the innovations that take place.
·
32:31
For a party that wants to pay their, the only thing they need is their visa credentials in a plastic card, in a virtual form or whatever way it will be in the future. That really is something that we really believe in.
·
32:47
Yeah. Perhaps taking two perspectives, in the next two to three years and perhaps 15 years down the line, what are some of the developments that we should expect or kind of expect there.
·
33:02
In terms of the visa innovations, you mean,
·
33:04
In terms of, in terms of where credit cards are going, and as well, where visa,
·
33:11
So for us, right. For us, it's really about, we want to have money flowing where it should flow. We want people that make a payment, that they can make a payment. If they want to push your payment, they should be able to push a payment if they want to do essentially anything they want to do with their money flows and the, we are the right party for them. That's really something that we are investing heavily in. We've been traditionally, and we've been seen specifically in Netherlands as a credit card company and other markets really have other payments company. I think we are more and more becoming essentially a moving money company that doesn't always have to be for payment, right. It doesn't have to be for purchase that can also just be to settle it to remit.
·
33:52
If you are a worker abroad and you want to send money home, that's in essence, what our network is, what our network does. Our network will continue to grow through, in the foreseeable and probably even unforeseeable future, but maybe Daniel has additional insights here.
·
34:11
Really well said. I think the point I would like to add is that we position ourselves going forward as the network of networks, actually to allow that money to flow wherever. Let's say that the consumer or business or bank or other entity would like it to flow in a secure resilience and, almost, instant way. I think that is where we will have to, and not in two or three years from now, but definitely in 10 to 15 years from now, as we leave, we are best positioned to enable that money flow across the globe in an efficient, effective future proof way. We will further build our technology stack and innovation stack around us to make this happen.
·
35:12
Yep. You'll shortly touched upon remittance of course, had that. That's also a key, flow of funds. There are, of course, a lot of developments in how, remittance is definitely collected in, for instance, Africa, what are some of the developments that you see there in money room and as well, of course, for Asia as well.
·
35:35
I think in general, right? So we looking to have money flow where church, so for remittance, typically from a foreign worker who sending money back home, we want to be, we want it to be as simple as possible. There is number of routes you could take, right? So if you are, for instance, a technician or engineer from say, India, you're working in the Netherlands. You want to send money home and also be a creative artist at 1% money to America, that's your own place, but there's a number of options you have. You can take a process whereby there's the traditional correspondent banking. It's not really clear how much money is actually going to arrive.
·
36:16
When is it going to arrive all that type of stuff? So we have solutions in place that enable and that we are growing and building that enable, these international transfers to be much more predictable and also much faster than a lot of the current alternatives are. That's really an area that we also see, it's a develop that it can arrive and it can arrive on a visa, credential, a car or something else in that foreign country. It may arrive on someone's bank account, through the acquisition that we've done on earth port and uncle's visa payments payment is limited. There's a number of ways in which that money can arrive. It really is one message that I want to get across to the audience today is that any visa is much broader than that traditional, purchase a payment company. Right.
·
37:04
Were moving money and we can move that money within the visa network, but also beyond.
·
37:10
Yeah, indeed. And then, yeah. I think that we've learned already quite a lot now about, yeah, the entire flow of funds and anything else that we didn't discuss yet that we think yeah. Should definitely be heard.
·
37:26
Now, maybe the step in between, because we, shared with you the horizon of where we would like to evolve to as visa and where we are evolving to, the, I would say the midterm step is as we eluded tokenization. Yes. That's more, I would say the enabling functionality, what we would like to achieve is also convergence in terms of, that a point of sale terminal will be less needed in the future. Think of your mobile device, turning into an acceptance device, tap to phone, think of, moving it to e-com and e-comm environment, but actually in a retail environment, when a transaction takes place and that we that's what we call convergence, or that actually the e-comm and point of sale world come together in a way, which is clear to the consumer and to the merchant, and actually solves and supports.
·
38:39
Let's say for the challenges, which we are currently facing and it's that is what we want actually to see happening and to support the ecosystem with is that everything is done more smoothly and more frictionless, but at the same time, even more secure.
·
39:01
Yep. Israel, the point of sale terminal, which you mentioned that the acquisition of mobi wave by Apple for instance, is a step in that direction that each device can accept the payments. For example, open up the landscape even broader for companies like these,
·
39:18
Correct. Yeah. Yeah. We'll be stepped at again also not in three years from now, but in three years from now, you see, you will see the first steps in that direction. Yeah.
·
39:30
Yeah. I'm very excited for that because yeah. It's still, at the moment I'm already frustrated when I'm in the supermarket and somebody needs to pull out their card and insert it and put their coding. Yeah. My first thought is why don't use Apple, pay something, pay, you name it. That will become more smooth and seamless, only in the future.
·
39:54
No, definitely. I think you put a nice, example here because 10 years ago, were actually, pointing your experience with you just state your current pain contactless as being, wow. That is the future. It will actually all look great and please actually play, pay less with cash and with coins at the tail, that's where we are already now. That's how we can build a future in becoming even more, I would say even a better experience for the customers.
·
40:32
Yeah. The developments they go so quick, because I remember that, two years ago, I first started carrying my cards, stuck to my phone and a small rubber, sticker. I haven't had a wallet in my, with me for, I think over two years. Quite recently, I came to the conclusion that I totally forgot the codes of my cards, all of them, because I haven't used the cards within the either for the last few years, it's all been through my wallet and that has a different code. So yeah. I don't know. It's still programmed into my mind to take care of my cards with me because yeah. It feels secure, but still I haven't used them for over two years.
·
41:16
Yeah. It might be then the early adapter, but that is how it is moving forward. Looking at the latest statistics from the Dutch payment association, for example, you really see a steep rise in number of, mobile initiated payments.
·
41:34
Yup. Yeah exactly. I think that's huge. That's huge potential. Yeah, I'm super excited to see the developments there and in the coming years, Daniel, I want to thank you a lot for your time. It's been a real pleasure having you on, and I think that those who are not that familiar with schemes, but as well now, visa as a company or flow of payments, I've learned a lot. So thank you both. You're very welcome. Thank you very much today.
·
42:01
The voice is in payments. Both cast is an initiative launched by payment genes, aimed at positively impacting the payments community by educating and connecting the market with vertical specific industry expertise. We as payment, Gene's empower to industry by focusing on the fundaments for business growth. We achieved this by providing industry leading famous recruitment business and data strategy consulting services, check out Bateman jeans.com for more info. Please follow us on social media for more jobs, company updates, industry insights, and more.